WORKSHOP ON WORK IS WORSHIP
4-5 Important Questions on Life, science & spirituality etc normally bothering our Human minds
Radhe Krishna To All,
Question No 4:
"What is the sign of a person who has seen God? How are we to identify such a person?" 'how are we to know that a person has seen God. Will there be any special signs on him?'
Sri.Sri.Muralidhara Swamiji:
Normally I have been pointing out to what the Vedas have said in this context. The Vedas have said, "the one who claims - 'I have seen God, I have attained Self-Realisation, I am a Jnani, there is no Jnani greater than I am, I possess power that none other possesses' - has really not seen God!” This is because God is not something to be seen but is to be 'experienced'. One who has had darshan of God will become Silent. This is the universal reply.
How are we to know a person who has attained complete Bhagavat darshan/wisdom?
What I feel is that mere declaration by a person - 'I have seen God'; 'I have attained Self-Realization' 'I have become a Jnani'; 'I have attained Jivan Mukti state'; 'I have cut asunder Maya', (and advices others) 'all of you should cut asunder your Maya' - and describes God to be this or that does not confirm such experience, such knowledge. What is the reason for saying so? Speech is different from experience/knowledge.
A person’s declaration that he has seen God or that he has attained Self-Realization does not establish it. The Vedas and the Upanishads say that such persons who go about bragging that they have seen God or have attained Self-Realization have really not attained it. The Vedas say that those who have really attained the highest state would not speak out. The Vedas say - 'Yato vacha nivartante aprapya manasa saha' - that Highest Being is beyond words and mind.
Thus, on the question of how to identify Mahans it has to be said that we cannot spot them on the basis of words. Mahans can be identified (only) through their 'charitra' (life history), through their life style. The 'charitra' of a true Mahan is like an open book. An open book has nothing to hide. Is that not so? If we live with them for some time we find that they (Mahans) sleep alongside others, wake up with others, have food with others. Their life is found to be an open book with nothing to hide.
For example, Kanchi Periyava, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharishi, Seshadri Swami were such Mahans. From their 'charitra' you find that they mingled with all. Where do they sleep? Where do they bathe? What do they eat? These are all open book.
There was no event in their lives for them to cover up. This is the first sign of a Mahan. On seeing such Mahans respect arises in our heart and mind spontaneously. This is another sign. Due to the divinity shining forth from them respect, admiration and even fear arises in our heart without our knowledge. This is another sign. Thirdly, from the 'charitra'( Life History) of Mahans we find that they face extraordinary events in their lives quite different from what we mortals face.
Let us say that a person declares, 'I have attained Self-Realisation (Atma sakshatkara). Let us assume that we take him to be a Jnani. But, you find that he is unable to bear the least physical pain. When a doctor injects some medicine into him he cries out in pain. He fears when a lizard or a cockroach falls on him. So, it is found that there is no correlation between his words or action.
There was a Jnani kown as Jada Bharata. When some people were about to axe him down he stood smiling! When some people were about to axe down Adi Sankara he stood his ground smiling! They did not even oppose the miscreants actions.
Do you know what Adi Sankara told his captors? Sankara told them, ‘till date I had thought that this body of mine was of no use to anyone. But, if it could be of some use to you go ahead and cut it!’
In the case of Jada Bharata, Goddess Kali could not bear the attempt to kill this great Jnani and coming out of the idol she killed all those who had tried to make a sacrifice of Jada Bharata.
There was a Mahatma by name Sadasiva Brahmendra. Once, a man cut off his arm. Cut off from the body, the arm fell down but Sadasiva Brahmendra just walked ahead without any sign of the occurrence!
Such incidents have occurred in the lives of Mahans. Do not judge a person (to be a Mahatma) by his mere utterances. Move with them and find out. Observe how they behave. Mahans also suffer diseases. There are people who abuse them also. There are people who praise them. Mahans also face situations just like an ordinary mortal. We have to notice the difference in facing the situations. How they view a situation and how we face it.
When we observe this we can understand them to be beyond ordinary humans. We find that there is more divinity in them than human behaviour. They possess clemency (forgiveness), the mental capacity to face joy and sorrow in like manner and the capacity to accept abuses and praise alike. They are totally dispassionate towards all worldly things. We will be able to understand all these when we live alongside them or by reading their 'charitra'. Living with them or reading about them and only by observing their life style we will be able to understand if one is a Mahatma or not. We cannot come to a conclusion (someone being a Jnani) through their self-proclamation or through the mouths of some 10 or 100 people.
A person does not become a Mahatma for the mere reason that a thousand or a lakh or a crore seek him. Today, crores of people throng the place of someone who is very popular in some art field. Can one call him a Mahatma because of this? It is not the sign of a Mahatma at all. Many persons holding high offices or many wealthy persons thronging a person are also not signs of a person being a Jnani because they (persons going to them) are also ignorant only.
Can one say that they have divine vision ? Or does wealth make a person knowledgeable? He is also a man just as we are. We hold no high office whereas he does. (That is the only difference). We possess no wealth but he does. In fact, his mind is filled with as much or much more filth than ours. Therefore, just because such people worship a person he does not become a Mahatma. All these are not the signs of a Mahatma. Only on reading many a life of a Mahan we learn the way they faced joy-sorrow ('sukh-dukkh'), praise-abuse, honour-insult . Only through this we come to understand about their true glory, their high standing.
Generally, while speaking on this subject of identifying a true Mahan what I say is, '(you) do true bhakti to God, have sincere yearning to attain God. If you possess real desire to attain God and have real involvement, He (God) will take you to a true Mahatma/Guru.' This is the reply that I repeatedly give.
Otherwise, if you wish to know who is a real Mahatma it can be known only through their 'charitra' (life history) or through those who have lived with him; and not on the basis of innumerable people thronging him or because he has a big ashram or because he has vast wealth or people holding high offices visit him or because a person proclaims, 'I have become a Jnani', 'I have seen God'. All these do not make a Mahatma of a person. Nor does one become a Mahatma just because he speaks of the past or reads the future. This is because even astrologers can read the past and future. For this reason they cannot be called a Jnani.
Performance of miracles also cannot make a Mahatma of a person. The moment one performs miracles he is exposed to be an ignorant. Performance of miracles is the very sign of Ignorance. No other sign is required for Ignorance. The moment a person performs miracle it is a sure sign of ignorance in him! Only the ignorant will perform wonders outwardly. So, we should understand this well. All these are not signs of Jnana.
Jnana remains hidden,calm and full. Deep compassion, glory and the gush of that Jnana reflect in the face. Deep calmness, peace (shanti) is found (in a Jnani). Sitting in such a Presence is enough. We do dhyana for many hours and we know how difficult it is to control this mind. We find that the mind control that we struggle to bring about through many hours, days, months of dhyana is brought about very easily within few moments in the presence of a Jnani. Some unknown bliss (is experienced). Some 'ananda' (joy) is experienced in that Mahatma's presence. Though these are the signs, the truth is that such great Jnanis cannot be comprehended without the blessings of God. This is the truth. I have spoken all these only because I have to say something. But, beyond all these, only if we have the Grace of God, only if God shows it to us can we spot/identify such true Jnanis and not otherwise. We cannot through our effort spot such a Jnani.
!!! More Insightful answers to Follow!!!
Chant the Mahamantra Nama kirtan :
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Pl visit www.namadwaar.org and down load the music.
Regards
------------------------------------------------------
If you have any questions or doubts concerning Spirituality, Mental peace or problems in life or about dharma, please write to us by clicking here:
http://www.namadwaar.org/answers/askquestion.php
His Holiness Sri Sri Swamiji personally answers these questions for you and suggests prayers.
-----------------------------------------------------
Question No 4:
"What is the sign of a person who has seen God? How are we to identify such a person?" 'how are we to know that a person has seen God. Will there be any special signs on him?'
Sri.Sri.Muralidhara Swamiji:
Normally I have been pointing out to what the Vedas have said in this context. The Vedas have said, "the one who claims - 'I have seen God, I have attained Self-Realisation, I am a Jnani, there is no Jnani greater than I am, I possess power that none other possesses' - has really not seen God!” This is because God is not something to be seen but is to be 'experienced'. One who has had darshan of God will become Silent. This is the universal reply.
How are we to know a person who has attained complete Bhagavat darshan/wisdom?
What I feel is that mere declaration by a person - 'I have seen God'; 'I have attained Self-Realization' 'I have become a Jnani'; 'I have attained Jivan Mukti state'; 'I have cut asunder Maya', (and advices others) 'all of you should cut asunder your Maya' - and describes God to be this or that does not confirm such experience, such knowledge. What is the reason for saying so? Speech is different from experience/knowledge.
A person’s declaration that he has seen God or that he has attained Self-Realization does not establish it. The Vedas and the Upanishads say that such persons who go about bragging that they have seen God or have attained Self-Realization have really not attained it. The Vedas say that those who have really attained the highest state would not speak out. The Vedas say - 'Yato vacha nivartante aprapya manasa saha' - that Highest Being is beyond words and mind.
Thus, on the question of how to identify Mahans it has to be said that we cannot spot them on the basis of words. Mahans can be identified (only) through their 'charitra' (life history), through their life style. The 'charitra' of a true Mahan is like an open book. An open book has nothing to hide. Is that not so? If we live with them for some time we find that they (Mahans) sleep alongside others, wake up with others, have food with others. Their life is found to be an open book with nothing to hide.
For example, Kanchi Periyava, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharishi, Seshadri Swami were such Mahans. From their 'charitra' you find that they mingled with all. Where do they sleep? Where do they bathe? What do they eat? These are all open book.
There was no event in their lives for them to cover up. This is the first sign of a Mahan. On seeing such Mahans respect arises in our heart and mind spontaneously. This is another sign. Due to the divinity shining forth from them respect, admiration and even fear arises in our heart without our knowledge. This is another sign. Thirdly, from the 'charitra'( Life History) of Mahans we find that they face extraordinary events in their lives quite different from what we mortals face.
Let us say that a person declares, 'I have attained Self-Realisation (Atma sakshatkara). Let us assume that we take him to be a Jnani. But, you find that he is unable to bear the least physical pain. When a doctor injects some medicine into him he cries out in pain. He fears when a lizard or a cockroach falls on him. So, it is found that there is no correlation between his words or action.
There was a Jnani kown as Jada Bharata. When some people were about to axe him down he stood smiling! When some people were about to axe down Adi Sankara he stood his ground smiling! They did not even oppose the miscreants actions.
Do you know what Adi Sankara told his captors? Sankara told them, ‘till date I had thought that this body of mine was of no use to anyone. But, if it could be of some use to you go ahead and cut it!’
In the case of Jada Bharata, Goddess Kali could not bear the attempt to kill this great Jnani and coming out of the idol she killed all those who had tried to make a sacrifice of Jada Bharata.
There was a Mahatma by name Sadasiva Brahmendra. Once, a man cut off his arm. Cut off from the body, the arm fell down but Sadasiva Brahmendra just walked ahead without any sign of the occurrence!
Such incidents have occurred in the lives of Mahans. Do not judge a person (to be a Mahatma) by his mere utterances. Move with them and find out. Observe how they behave. Mahans also suffer diseases. There are people who abuse them also. There are people who praise them. Mahans also face situations just like an ordinary mortal. We have to notice the difference in facing the situations. How they view a situation and how we face it.
When we observe this we can understand them to be beyond ordinary humans. We find that there is more divinity in them than human behaviour. They possess clemency (forgiveness), the mental capacity to face joy and sorrow in like manner and the capacity to accept abuses and praise alike. They are totally dispassionate towards all worldly things. We will be able to understand all these when we live alongside them or by reading their 'charitra'. Living with them or reading about them and only by observing their life style we will be able to understand if one is a Mahatma or not. We cannot come to a conclusion (someone being a Jnani) through their self-proclamation or through the mouths of some 10 or 100 people.
A person does not become a Mahatma for the mere reason that a thousand or a lakh or a crore seek him. Today, crores of people throng the place of someone who is very popular in some art field. Can one call him a Mahatma because of this? It is not the sign of a Mahatma at all. Many persons holding high offices or many wealthy persons thronging a person are also not signs of a person being a Jnani because they (persons going to them) are also ignorant only.
Can one say that they have divine vision ? Or does wealth make a person knowledgeable? He is also a man just as we are. We hold no high office whereas he does. (That is the only difference). We possess no wealth but he does. In fact, his mind is filled with as much or much more filth than ours. Therefore, just because such people worship a person he does not become a Mahatma. All these are not the signs of a Mahatma. Only on reading many a life of a Mahan we learn the way they faced joy-sorrow ('sukh-dukkh'), praise-abuse, honour-insult . Only through this we come to understand about their true glory, their high standing.
Generally, while speaking on this subject of identifying a true Mahan what I say is, '(you) do true bhakti to God, have sincere yearning to attain God. If you possess real desire to attain God and have real involvement, He (God) will take you to a true Mahatma/Guru.' This is the reply that I repeatedly give.
Otherwise, if you wish to know who is a real Mahatma it can be known only through their 'charitra' (life history) or through those who have lived with him; and not on the basis of innumerable people thronging him or because he has a big ashram or because he has vast wealth or people holding high offices visit him or because a person proclaims, 'I have become a Jnani', 'I have seen God'. All these do not make a Mahatma of a person. Nor does one become a Mahatma just because he speaks of the past or reads the future. This is because even astrologers can read the past and future. For this reason they cannot be called a Jnani.
Performance of miracles also cannot make a Mahatma of a person. The moment one performs miracles he is exposed to be an ignorant. Performance of miracles is the very sign of Ignorance. No other sign is required for Ignorance. The moment a person performs miracle it is a sure sign of ignorance in him! Only the ignorant will perform wonders outwardly. So, we should understand this well. All these are not signs of Jnana.
Jnana remains hidden,calm and full. Deep compassion, glory and the gush of that Jnana reflect in the face. Deep calmness, peace (shanti) is found (in a Jnani). Sitting in such a Presence is enough. We do dhyana for many hours and we know how difficult it is to control this mind. We find that the mind control that we struggle to bring about through many hours, days, months of dhyana is brought about very easily within few moments in the presence of a Jnani. Some unknown bliss (is experienced). Some 'ananda' (joy) is experienced in that Mahatma's presence. Though these are the signs, the truth is that such great Jnanis cannot be comprehended without the blessings of God. This is the truth. I have spoken all these only because I have to say something. But, beyond all these, only if we have the Grace of God, only if God shows it to us can we spot/identify such true Jnanis and not otherwise. We cannot through our effort spot such a Jnani.
!!! More Insightful answers to Follow!!!
Chant the Mahamantra Nama kirtan :
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Pl visit www.namadwaar.org and down load the music.
Regards
------------------------------------------------------
If you have any questions or doubts concerning Spirituality, Mental peace or problems in life or about dharma, please write to us by clicking here:
http://www.namadwaar.org/answers/askquestion.php
His Holiness Sri Sri Swamiji personally answers these questions for you and suggests prayers.
-----------------------------------------------------
Comment
About
THE SPIRITUAL SKY
There is another reality that is more compatible to us than what we experience now, and that reality is the unlimited Spiritual Sky.
The material world is a pale reflection of the Spiritual world, it is NOT heaven which some religions say is the ultimate destination.
Heaven is still in the material world and when you go there after using up all of your good karma you must come back to the earthly planets.
Even though you can stay there for millions of years and all your senses work better and you can have better sex life you cannot get to the Spiritual world easily because there you are more into sense gratification than here on earth.
The Spiritual Sky is 75% of Krishna's creation and the material world is 25%, the Spiritual world is eternal and time does not exist there, The material world is temporary and time destroys everything here.
In the Spiritual Sky there are no stars because everything is self illuminating, in the material world if turn off the lights at night you can't see a thing and most people are afraid of the dark.
In the Spiritual world there is no birth, old age, disease, war, or death, In the material world there is birth, old age, diseases, wars, and death all around us.
The Spiritual Sky is known as Vaikuntha or without anxieties, while the material world is called Kuntha or with anxieties. The living entities are like fish out of water here in material consciousness and some of them don't even realize that this place is a horror show for them.
So the choice is clear you can stay here and be a hero, fighting against material hardships or you can become a surrendered Krishna devotee and go back home, Back to Godhead.
The material world is a pale reflection of the Spiritual world, it is NOT heaven which some religions say is the ultimate destination.
Heaven is still in the material world and when you go there after using up all of your good karma you must come back to the earthly planets.
Even though you can stay there for millions of years and all your senses work better and you can have better sex life you cannot get to the Spiritual world easily because there you are more into sense gratification than here on earth.
The Spiritual Sky is 75% of Krishna's creation and the material world is 25%, the Spiritual world is eternal and time does not exist there, The material world is temporary and time destroys everything here.
In the Spiritual Sky there are no stars because everything is self illuminating, in the material world if turn off the lights at night you can't see a thing and most people are afraid of the dark.
In the Spiritual world there is no birth, old age, disease, war, or death, In the material world there is birth, old age, diseases, wars, and death all around us.
The Spiritual Sky is known as Vaikuntha or without anxieties, while the material world is called Kuntha or with anxieties. The living entities are like fish out of water here in material consciousness and some of them don't even realize that this place is a horror show for them.
So the choice is clear you can stay here and be a hero, fighting against material hardships or you can become a surrendered Krishna devotee and go back home, Back to Godhead.
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JAPA
Japa is the quiet prayer. You say it loud enough so you can hear it, but it’s mostly for yourself. Radha and Krishna can hear you. They’re close by, so you don’t have to shout. But They’re listening carefully, so you pronounce with great care. Put your heart into it. Hear me, Lord. Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/ Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. Over and over, the thirty-two syllables are repeated.
From Bhajana Kutir #78
Empty and calm and devoid of self
Is the nature of all things.
No individual being
In reality exists.
There is no end or beginning,
Nor any middle course.
All is an illusion,
As in a vision or a dream.
All beings in the world
Are beyond the realm of words.
Their ultimate nature, pure and true,
Is like the infinity of space.
-Prajnaparamita
---
It is only when the mind is completely under control that man can grasp his real identity. Then all troubles and travails, doubts and dilemmas, come to an end. Man then overcomes sorrow, delusion and anxiety. He is established in the holy calmness of Shanti (peace). Spiritual life is not a matter of meaningless talk. It is an experience of pure Ananda (bliss).
- Baba
All cravings and impulses rise up with overpowering strength like waves from the sea, roar in fury, and then subside in to calm waters. They do not confer peace. Wisdom lies in forgetting these waves and directing one's attention to the calm depths within. You can attain Shanti (peace) only if you dive in to the deep and undisturbed depths of the sea within, not by swimming around on the surface.
- Baba
From Bhajana Kutir #78
Empty and calm and devoid of self
Is the nature of all things.
No individual being
In reality exists.
There is no end or beginning,
Nor any middle course.
All is an illusion,
As in a vision or a dream.
All beings in the world
Are beyond the realm of words.
Their ultimate nature, pure and true,
Is like the infinity of space.
-Prajnaparamita
---
It is only when the mind is completely under control that man can grasp his real identity. Then all troubles and travails, doubts and dilemmas, come to an end. Man then overcomes sorrow, delusion and anxiety. He is established in the holy calmness of Shanti (peace). Spiritual life is not a matter of meaningless talk. It is an experience of pure Ananda (bliss).
- Baba
All cravings and impulses rise up with overpowering strength like waves from the sea, roar in fury, and then subside in to calm waters. They do not confer peace. Wisdom lies in forgetting these waves and directing one's attention to the calm depths within. You can attain Shanti (peace) only if you dive in to the deep and undisturbed depths of the sea within, not by swimming around on the surface.
- Baba
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